[Vision2020] city taxes
Donovan Arnold
donovanarnold@hotmail.com
Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:14:38 -0700
My Apologies. I confused "Barbara Richardson", with the "Betty Richardson"
that ran for the US House of Representatives. My oops, sorry Barbara. I can
get mixed up with names easily.
Donovan J Arnold
>From: "Jerry L. Schutz" <jschutz@moscow.com>
>To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanarnold@hotmail.com>, "Moscow Vision 2020"
><vision2020@moscow.com>
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] city taxes
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:52:19 -0700
>
>Donovan;
>Barbara is not an elected official. She is the Executive Director of the
>Moscow/Latah Economic Development Council. Unless you sit on the LEDC Board
>you did not, nor will have the opportunity to vote for her.
>
>Jerry L. Schutz
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
>Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
>Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 02:19 PM
>To: edc@moscow.com; strand@pacsim.com; jdanahy@turbonet.com;
>vision2020@moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] city taxes
>
>
>Barbara,
>
>I have the greatest respect for you. I voted for you, and will again.
>However, you are incorrect about your interpretation and understanding
>about the operation and costs to students and taxpayers at the University
>of
>Idaho. I have all the documentation to prove what I am saying and would be
>happy to take you around the University. You are listening to what UI
>Administrators are publishing and saying. I spent 3 years working with Dan
>Schoenberg, the head of Auxiliary Services, which runs the vandal cards,
>streets, parking, and housing. I also spent two years working with
>Administrators on the students Health Insurance.
>
>I would be happy to produce all the documentation I have saved for the last
>three years working with students, administrators, and other government
>officials. I will run down each of your points and explain where you
>misunderstand.
>
>"the university of Idaho transfers more than $1 million
> >per year to the City of Moscow to cover police expenses, etc."
>
>Yes, this is true, but they produce more than 1/2 the costs to the Police
>department.
>
>
>" University also paid for 1/2 of the wastewater treatment plant"
>
>The University of Idaho Fisheries Department alone uses more than 40% of
>the
>water in Moscow. Combine that with all other water uses it has for gardens
>and occupants and other departments and it does not cover its share of the
>need for water treatment plant.
>
>
>"and maintains all the City streets located on campus"
>
>Which is no maintenance at all. The University acquired the "rights" to the
>streets so they could charge $45 a parking space. See here:
>http://www.info.uidaho.edu/parking/default.asp?page=map and here:
>http://www.info.uidaho.edu/parking/default.asp?page=regs# under purple
>permit.They say they are to maintain it. When in facts there are NO real
>requirements to maintain the road. They are not required to do anything to
>the road except rake the leaves once a year. Nor are they required to
>remove
>snow from the streets. Sidewalks are also not under the jurisdiction, the
>owners of the property in front of the sidewalks are legally required to
>maintain that area. What this means is that even though the Moscow taxpayer
>bought the roads and paid for there construction, they would have to buy a
>parking permit to park there because the University has the rights to the
>road. They paid zero in the original construction of the road.
>
>
>"The University has no "legal domain" over health insurance - a student may
>purchase health insurance from any carrier - but they must have insurance."
>
>
>This is incorrect as well. Any student that cannot meet the requirements of
>the University is automatically enrolled in the "University of Idaho"
>"Student Health Insurance Program (SHIP)". Those requirements are designed
>so that only dependant students that are covered by more extensive coverage
>plans such a "Blue Cross" are allowed out of the requirement. The
>University
>also uses tax dollars to promote the program over local coverage and try to
>sell it to parents that are sending their children to the University even
>if
>they already have the qualifying Health Insurance and/or better health
>insurance. In addition, the Health Insurance does not cover dental, skin,
>and eyes. These are the leading problems and costs of students at the
>University. That is probably why they cut them out of the program. Students
>had this coverage before this program was required. Moscow Dentists were
>willing to work with the University to allow students health insurance of
>dental coverage at a very low rate. However, the University denied this
>opportunity for the students because it opted to go with a national
>insurance provider that would not allow local Dentists to be a part of the
>plan. The only thing the University Health Insurance program is good for is
>for purchasing drugs and if you are in a horrible accident. I insist that
>if
>you don't believe this to go to any dentist office in Moscow or at least
>visit this site: www.uidaho.edu/ship/PDF/SHIPenrollmentform.pdf
>
>
>"But, no private developer can build apartment complexes that they rent for
>less than market."
>
>This is incorrect, in fact, the total opposite is true. The Moscow City
>council just approved a low income housing project that will be located at
>the South entrance of Moscow off of Highway 95 in the next year. Rent here
>will be about $370 for a two bedroom apartment. They are making a profit.
>You are ignoring three important facts, one, that the University asks for
>requirements of Builders that are not needed by the majority of students
>and
>will cost huge amounts of money. Second, that builders are going to
>complain
>about what they can rent an apartment for on the market no matter what. Go
>to Taylor avenue, it is full of tiny apartments that were built many years
>ago and the rent is outrageous check this site out: . Just run the numbers,
>a complex that has 6 unites and rents each one for $1000 dollars will bring
>in $72,000 a year. Unless you are getting a 15% interest rate on your loan
>you have to make a profit on a 20 year loan.
>
>Third, the University misconstrues to total costs of living in a resident
>hall versus that of an off campus apartment. A Student living in a resident
>hall sharing a room with one other student, and a rest room with an
>adjoining room of two others pays $6000 for nine months for room and board.
>That is $666 a month for just the rent and food. Now, those same four
>students get a two bedroom apartment for $1000 they pay $250 each for rent,
>about $50 for utilities a piece, $6 for local phone, about $5 for basic
>cabal and another $100 for food. That amount equals $411 a month.
>
>The University plays with the numbers. When it states the rent, it excludes
>the meal plan they are required to buy when living in the Resident Halls.
>So
>rather than saying it costs in $6000, they can say it costs $4000. They
>than
>use the term "school year" rather than month. That is cheaper on paper. But
>not in reality. The fact is 90-95% of students move out of the Resident
>Halls after the first year contract is up after they figure this out. The
>ones that usually stay are students that get Resident Hall paying
>positions,
>don't have cars or computers, enjoy the social life, or have parents that
>refuse to pay for them to move out. A 5% return rate is a sign of something
>when 95%+ of students are first year students at the University. See this
>site:
>
>"what about married graduate and law students, many of whom have children?"
>
>Oh, I would love to give you some papers on the University Budget. I would
>also like to take you on a tour of Family Housing and Graduate Housing. I
>could introduce you to some people and take you into some apartments. You
>would not be happy and your image of the University would change.
>
>Graduate housing is NOT Cheaper. Family Housing is cheaper. But the
>conditions that 3/4 of them are living in are well below what they are
>paying. They have mold on the ceilings, broken utility boxes, loose
>railings, and virtually no lighting. The bark on the playground is 6 inches
>long, hard, and has gagged edges. I had to fight for three months to get a
>piece of slide replaced that had a hole large enough for a childs leg to
>fall through. I had to fight for young Asia women to get another apartment
>elsewhere on campus after she moved out the apartment it was condemned
>because the ground it was build on. Another lady had the city sewer system
>go up her drain and it spilled all over inside her apartment. Another lady
>pulled her child off the floor and his knees were all scratched and sore
>from the carpet of an apartment she just moved into. I have a million
>stories to tell and would love to tell them all to you.
>
>One might think that Family Housing is subsidized by other Student Housing.
>But in fact it is the opposite. South Side Vista Apartments in Family
>housing are so old that the University has them paid off. The money that
>they pay does not go to repair and maintenance of the old mold infested
>apartments. In turn it goes to Resident Halls. The Resident Halls pay out
>to
>Sodexho, which takes the profit of $120,000 a year. Almost the exact amount
>of money that South Hill Vista pays in total rent after expenses are paid
>in
>Family Housing.
>
>
>That $120,000 should go back to family housing to maintain it not to some
>international corporation the invested in third world country prisons that
>have many prisoners that were not even guilty of a crime and live in
>conditions that are so horrible many people all across the world have
>protested.
>I have a copy of the Sodexho contract if you would like to see it or copy
>it. It is not online and is difficult to get a hold of. You have to fill
>out
>a request form giving your reasons and wait about 3 months. Two other ASUI
>Senators before me could not get a copy. I never got it from the office I
>applied for it, I had to ask Director Schoenberg for the copy.
>
>
>"The University supported and supports legislation to allow the use of the
> >Vandal Card off campus. Many in the banking industry do not."
>
>You are incorrect about this too, in part, the important part. The part you
>are correct about is the part of the Vandal Card being used as a credit
>card
>or checking card. This competes with local businesses. The Banks have no
>problem with making the Vandal Card run by the Banks. This would in fact
>benefit from it. ASUI and UI Lobbied to have the banking laws changed,we
>dropped our idea when the students and banks agreed to change our tactic of
>lobbing for private banks to take over the Vandal Card program. It is the
>University that is blocking this agreement. The University will not allow
>private banks to take over the Vandal Card program and make a profit.
>Although it would make a profit, it would cost less for students because
>the
>Private Banks can run the program for less and students could buy products
>off campus for cheaper than on campus.
>
>
>"No decision or change happens in a vacuum. What may be good for
> >one group of businesses may devastate another group."
>
>I agree, but if someone has to be devastated, let us choose to devastate
>national corporations where Moscow is only .0000001% of the profit versus
>devastating local businesses where jobs are located in the community.
>
>"Ultimately, Moscow needs to increase its business base and decide to live
> >within its means"
>
>I agree, but you can't just say it, we have to have a plan. My idea is to
>allow businesses not to have to compete with the University which is
>subsidized by the State taxpayer.
>
>
>"We have lots of government - federal, state, county, local - in Moscow and
>Latah county that
> >do not pay taxes."
>
>Yes, but they provide direct services for the community. The University is
>not providing services by cornering the market in Health Insurance,
>Computers, and Housing. the University provides jobs, which helps the city
>of Moscow. But when it doesn't go much beyond that in helping. It could
>allow local businesses in on the sales of Health Insurance, computers,
>food,
>housing, and many other services and products that it purchases from
>non-local businesses.
>
>I don't think we should be allowing the University to walk all over people.
>Many Moscow residents are suffering from Battered Wife Syndrome when it
>comes to their rights. Just because the University brings us a pay check,
>doesn't mean it has the right to take businesses away, take our water, and
>get what ever it demands upon the people of Moscow. Like I said, when was
>the last time a Moscow Politician said "no" to the University instead of
>giving them what ever they wanted. I can't recall a time in the 10 years
>they did this.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Donovan J Arnold
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Barbara Richardson" <edc@moscow.com>
> >To: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanarnold@hotmail.com>, <strand@pacsim.com>,
> ><jdanahy@turbonet.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] city taxes
> >Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:55:51 -0700
> >
> >All,
> >
> >Please be aware that the university of Idaho transfers more than $1
>million
> >per year to the City of Moscow to cover police expenses, etc. The
> >University also paid for 1/2 of the wastewater treatment plant, and
> >maintains all the City streets located on campus. The University has no
> >"legal domain" over health insurance - a student may purchase health
> >insurance from any carrier - but they must have insurance.
> >
> >Earlier this year, the University met with local builders in a meeting
> >sponsored by the City of Moscow. They told the local communities exactly
> >what housing needs the University will have over the next 10 years. But,
> >no
> >private developer can build apartment complexes that they rent for less
> >than
> >market. Most students and families that live on campus do so because
>they
> >cannot afford to live in Moscow. It is only cheaper to live off campus
>if
> >you are single - what about married graduate and law students, many of
>whom
> >have children?
> >
> >The University supported and supports legislation to allow the use of
>the
> >Vandal Card off campus. Many in the banking industry do not. If
>students
> >can use their vandal card off campus - will they still opt for local bank
> >accounts. No decision or change happens in a vacuum. What may be good
>for
> >one group of businesses may devastate another group.
> >
> >Ultimately, Moscow needs to increase its business base and decide to live
> >within its means. That may include limited the number of parks and
> >programs
> >operated by the City. Also, how many buildings have been removed from
>he
> >tax roles by the City of Moscow in the past three years? But on the other
> >side of the coin, we save about $4 per year having a volunteer fire
> >department. It is not simply a University issue. We have lots of
> >government - federal, state, county, local - in Moscow and Latah county
> >that
> >do not pay taxes. Please take a look at your property tax bill - what
> >percentage goes to what governmental entity?
> >
> >It is difficult for government to live within its means, citizens always
> >want more services - but lower taxes.
> >
> >Barbara
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
> >Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
> >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:41 AM
> >To: strand@pacsim.com; jdanahy@turbonet.com; vision2020@moscow.com
> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] city tazes
> >
> >
> >Mr. Strand,
> >
> >I agree with you in part. We must provide more business opportunities in
> >Moscow. I also agree that Moscow remains to dependant on the University.
> >
> >Where I disagree is where you have one student that contributes to the
> >running of Moscow and another doesn't. One business pays taxes and
>another
> >doesn't. One farmer pays taxes and another doesn't. One restaurant pays
> >taxes to the community and another doesn't. I don't like that concept. I
> >think it is unjust. I am student. I choose to live off campus for two
> >reasons. One, Moscow is my hometown and I want to help support it.
>Second,
> >it is actually cheaper to live off campus than on campus.
> >
> >What many people don't realize is that the University has established
> >"legal
> >domain" over many services and products. A few examples are computers and
> >health insurance. The University unfairly claims rights of products and
> >services that render other Moscow community businesses profitless.
> >
> >I find it unjust for a health insurance company to pay money to a system
> >that in turn creates health insurance that is cheaper than what they can
> >provide. Likewise, computer companies have to pay the University which
> >requires some students to buy computers from them. To me, this is like
> >requiring Safeway to pay a certain percentage of its' income to Tidyman's
> >so
> >they can make their prices cheaper than Safeway. This kills businesses.
>It
> >is a monopoly that can't be fought.
> >
> >The reason I support more businesses to come in is to lessen our
>dependence
> >on the University so that we can say "NO" to the University every time it
> >wants something. To many politicians in Moscow cave into the University
> >demands that hurt students and residents of Moscow.
> >
> >We need to have Resident Halls run and managed by Moscow Businesses. We
> >need
> >to have the University do Health Insurance through local and Idaho
> >businesses. We need to have all construction done by area workers in
>Idaho.
> >We need to have computers purchased through Moscow and/or Idaho computer
> >companies. We need to have all the University banking go through local
>area
> >branches.
> >
> >Moscow Businesses are in competition with the University. I don't think
> >this
> >economy can grow as long the University sucks up the profit margin and
> >gives
> >all profits to national and foreign corporations or wastes it on water
> >fountains and poorly constructed building that cost a fortune. I have
>been
> >to meetings on campus where they told the students not to buy from local
> >businesses. The University has policies and contracts that prevent local
> >businesses from even being allowed to compete for business from Students.
> >Any student that lives on campus is required to put money on a Vandal
>Card.
> >The Vandal Card cannot be used off campus.
> >
> >I also don't think businesses like Naylor Farms are the solution either.
> >Naylor Farms will use more water than the entire cities of Pullman and
> >Moscow combined. The area does not have the resources nor can we tolerate
> >the environmental damage it would bring.
> >
> >Moscow needs to grow. But it needs to grow intelligently and within the
> >structure of Moscow culture. I don't want Moscow changing its' face or
> >turning into another American sprawled suburb. Moscow is Unique. I hope
>to
> >keep its' flavor. Unfortunately, the University has become a corporation
> >and
> >not a school, and it hijacking the local community from being able to
>move
> >in the friendly direction of helping Moscow residents and more toward the
> >interests of the University of Idaho Incorporated to make more money and
> >expand to an ever fattening bureaucracy that has the purpose of only
> >feeding
> >itself even more. This must stop for any Moscow Community businesses to
> >move
> >in here and be able to survive. We must first stop the annihilation of
> >businesses before creating new ones.
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >Donovan J Arnold
> >
> >
> > >From: "Bill Strand" <strand@pacsim.com>
> > >To: "'Donovan Arnold'" <donovanarnold@hotmail.com>,
> ><jdanahy@turbonet.com>,
> > > <vision2020@moscow.com>
> > >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] city tazes
> > >Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:56:41 -0700
> > >
> > >Donovan,
> > >
> > >The issue of high property taxes will remain as long as the city of
> > >Moscow remains dependent upon entities such as the University of Idaho
> > >and Gritman that pay no property taxes. Think about the land that has
> > >come off the tax rolls in the last few years (such as Cavanaugh's
> > >Landing). This means that a larger percentage of property taxes will be
> > >placed on homeowners. I was once told that Latah County has one of the
> > >highest proportion of taxes coming from the homeowners in all of Idaho.
> > >
> > >The answer isn't to tax the students and/or visitors to Moscow - the
> > >answer is to develop the business community in this town. These
>entities
> > >require the minimum amount of increased services (fire, hospital,
>water,
> > >garbage, etc...) and thus have the highest return on investment for
> > >their taxes.
> > >
> > >However, this takes a long term commitment in a wide range of areas.
> > >
> > >Bill Strand
> > >
> >
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