[Vision2020] Government killing, etc.

[Troy Merrill]

As for the so-called Ten Commandments, I will give Luke or anyone else
> a $1,000 reward for showing us an official numbered list in the Bible
> of these alleged commandments.

Which bible?

Troy Merrill

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Nielsen" <nielsen@uidaho.edu>
To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 7:07 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] Government killing, etc.


> > From: "Luke" <lukenieuwsma@softhome.net>
> > Date: Tue Jul 22, 2003  4:51:24 PM US/Pacific
> > To: "Ted Moffett" <ted_moffett@hotmail.com>
> > Cc: "vision2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Religious Diversity Education
> >
> >
> > I do believe in the death penalty, and I don't dodge the fact that
> > there is
> > controversy over this topic throughout our nation. But the death
> > penalty is
> > a side issue; we would not need it if the ten commandments were
> > followed
> > from the beginning. It is not the law of God that leads to confusion;
> > it is
> > man's sinfulness, and in many cases his refusal to follow God's law
> > that
> > bring about the controversies.
> > (To briefly address the issue, OT law lays clear principles that Christ
> > upheld in His ministry, and though not all OT laws carry through today,
> > those principles behind them still do. And one of them is that if you
> > take
> > something unlawfully, the same will be required of you. And if I
> > killed your
> > wife, or your mother, you would very quickly become a proponent of the
> > D penalty, regardless of prior beliefs.)
> >
> >     I will agree that man by himself cannot obey God's law. That's why
> > He
> > sends the saints the Holy Spirit. There still is debate and argument,
> > but a
> > disagreement over the death penalty is not going to put you in hell.
> > Denying
> > it does not amount to heresy; you can believe the basic
> > gospel and still be wrong about a side issue. I know that there are
> > many
> > areas of secondary doctrine that I don't fully understand, but the
> > basic
> > gospel is clear, and so are the 10 commandments. Don't get flustered
> > over
> > the death penalty; rather, simply don't murder.
> >
> >     To boil down the rest of your arguments, it seems quite clear that
> > you
> > are an empiricist, and you don't believe in anything that you cannot
> > prove
> > under the microscope. That doesn't sound very tolerant to me, Mr.
> > Moffet.
> >     There are many things which we know exist that you cannot get a
> > scientific handle on. Life, for one. When an organism is alive, there
> > is
> > energy intake and energy output, but when it dies, for some reason all
> > that
> > stops. Why? What is it that keeps you alive? Science cannot answer that
> > question.
> >     Where does love come from? You cannot chemically analyze kindness;
> > you
> > cannot dissect rudeness and attribute it to certain nerves in your
> > body. Or
> > what about music? Here you have an ordered structure of things
> > vibrating.
> > Things buzzing. Scientifically, empirically, music shouldn't exist.
> > Simple
> > sound waves somehow fit into a coherent framework from horsehair
> > rubbing on
> > strings, and you get Bach. Things smash into each other in some strange
> > consistency called rhythm, and out comes CCR. Why? Science alone cannot
> > explain any of these things.
> >     My point in all this is somewhat obscure, so let me clarify.
> > Empiricism goes nowhere. Science proves nothing, it only gives
> > evidence.
> > Humans have to make the conclusions, and these conclusions are based
> > on the
> > supposedly flawed and imperfect minds you keep claiming we have. And
> > even
> > then, science and empirical evidence cannot conceive many things.
> >     And science cannot give us the answer to morality, for science is
> > constantly changing. Old theories are ever being replaced by the new.
> > If you
> > try to base your religion on the words and claims of the scientists,
> > you're
> > building a house without a foundation.
> >     Christiants have a solid foundation, God's word. At the heart of
> > it, the
> > 10 commandments. And though you might point to semi-relevant rabbit
> > trails,
> > the confusion isn't over the 10 Words, but over particular
> > applications.
> > Your
> > attempt to confuse them and replace them with empiricism has failed, I
> > am
> > afraid.
> >
> > Sincerely and respectfully,
> > Luke Nieuwsma
> >
> RALPH NIELSEN
> It is obvious that Luke Nieuwsma doesn't care how many innocent people
> are killed by governments in the name of capital punishment. He just
> loves to kill. Civilized countries gave up state killing many years
> ago. Even the Catholic Church now opposes it, after many centuries of
> enthusiastically endorsing it.
> As for Luke's imagined "solid foundation, God's word," would he please
> tell us where his God has provided the world with a definition of
> exactly what constitutes the so-called Holy Bible?
> As for the so-called Ten Commandments, I will give Luke or anyone else
> a $1,000 reward for showing us an official numbered list in the Bible
> of these alleged commandments.
>
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