[Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
Donovan Arnold
donovanarnold@hotmail.com
Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:05:12 -0700
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<P>Luke,</P>
<P>You are funny. Sometimes I think you can't believe what you write and are just playing around. You make assumptions about my positions and me and make wierd conections about what I say. It is like I say we should water plants and you infer that I want all trees to be cut down and removed from the earth. Such strong streches of the imagination, it is like you are talking to someone else and not a part of the same conversation.</P>
<P>I don't need the Bible or the Quran, or any other book or writting to tell me that hurting other people is wrong, or to treat them as less is wrong. I guess you do need to read the old testiment to know not to sleep with a donkey or to sleep with your mother. </P>
<P>Luke, It all boils down to one rule:</P>
<P>"If it doesn't infringe upon the rights, freedoms, health, life, liberties, or property of another person, let them do it."</P>
<P>Donovan J Arnold</P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Luke" <LUKENIEUWSMA@SOFTHOME.NET>
<DIV></DIV>>To: "Donovan Arnold" <DONOVANARNOLD@HOTMAIL.COM>, vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 18:28:17 -0700
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Mr. Arnold,
<DIV></DIV>> It fascinates me that you are willing to do away with the very concept of marriage. Is this the way other gays think as well? I see it now; we'll all become a bunch of herd animals. Find a consenting adult, either sex, and play around. Sounds rather like a dairy farm to me.
<DIV></DIV>> But where do you get your idea of human rights? You are pulling things out of thin air. Rights. Wrongs. No sex with kids, unless they are physically matured enough. An old man cannot marry a young girl. Why should anyone follow these standards, based on your worldview? You claim that everyone should be able to make their own sexual choices, and yet you through your own universal guidelines would limit what others could or could not do.
<DIV></DIV>> And regarding your statement that most marriages are false anyways, you are practically saying that if something is broken, throw it away. What about fixing it? But actually, if you tried to fix it you would try to screw on a bolt with a hammer.
<DIV></DIV>> Sincerely,
<DIV></DIV>>Luke Nieuwsma
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> From: Donovan Arnold
<DIV></DIV>> To: lukenieuwsma@softhome.net ; vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:40 PM
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Luke,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Nobody is more against relationships between children and adults then the homosexual community and civil rights activitists. It is you that wishes to connect NAMBLA with the gay community. NAMBLA is a pedophilia organization. NOT a gay organization. You have a very twisted concept of reality. Every study in America in the last 15 years has shown that White Straight Married men are the leaders of child molesting. Look at you media cases would you? The "Amber Alert" is always little white girls abducted by sick white men, almost all every case, most of them married or previously married.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> You write:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> "For that matter, looking at things from your point of view, what would be wrong with simply abolishing all concept of marriage?"
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Nothing, from my perceptive of equal rights. But from human rights a big difference. Most marriages are false anyway. It is what is in the heart that matters. But Marriages allow for tax breaks, child custody, hospital visitation rights, property rights, medical coverage, spousal benefits, car insurance, burial rights, death benefits, and a host of other issues.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Everyone has the right to decide who they want to receive these rights about themselves and their family. That is a basic human right. I would hate for someone to tell me that I can't have someone make decisions for me in a case of an accident because of the gender of the person, or because they disagree with my decision based on "their" religious beliefs. This the core of the issue. Not NAMBLA is a small group of freaks that no sense of reality or the rights of children.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> Donovan J Arnold
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >From: "Luke"
<DIV></DIV>> >To: "Donovan Arnold" , "vision2020"
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:19:31 -0700
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Greetings, Mr. Arnold,
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> > I find it odd that you do not see the connection between Nambla and
<DIV></DIV>> >homosexual unions . Someone on this list recently pointed out that there is
<DIV></DIV>> >already hypocrisy in heterosexual marriages nation-wide; men and women with
<DIV></DIV>> >covenant vows are cheating on their spouses. Now what is to stop two men
<DIV></DIV>> >with a "vow" from cheating on each other?
<DIV></DIV>> > For that matter, looking at things from your point of view, what would
<DIV></DIV>> >be wrong with simply abolishing all concept of marriage? Why should there
<DIV></DIV>> >even be a contract? How can you say mutual consent isn't enough?
<DIV></DIV>> > And furthermore, how can you in your worldview say that sex between a
<DIV></DIV>> >child and a man is immoral/should be illegal? You're imposing your religious
<DIV></DIV>> >views on others!
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >My sincere and respectful regards,
<DIV></DIV>> >Luke Nieuwsma
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >P.S. On your earlier post you mentioned under the objection "The parts don't
<DIV></DIV>> >fit" that modern science can tweak a man's body into adopting female organs.
<DIV></DIV>> >But doesn't that simply fit the heterosexual pattern that man was designed
<DIV></DIV>> >for? You cannot escape the way God made the world, try as you might.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >
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