[Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
Luke
lukenieuwsma@softhome.net
Thu, 7 Aug 2003 18:28:17 -0700
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C35D11.ABC72C50
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr. Arnold,
It fascinates me that you are willing to do away with the very =
concept of marriage. Is this the way other gays think as well? I see it =
now; we'll all become a bunch of herd animals. Find a consenting adult, =
either sex, and play around. Sounds rather like a dairy farm to me.
But where do you get your idea of human rights? You are pulling =
things out of thin air. Rights. Wrongs. No sex with kids, unless they =
are physically matured enough. An old man cannot marry a young girl. Why =
should anyone follow these standards, based on your worldview? You claim =
that everyone should be able to make their own sexual choices, and yet =
you through your own universal guidelines would limit what others could =
or could not do.=20
And regarding your statement that most marriages are false anyways, =
you are practically saying that if something is broken, throw it away. =
What about fixing it? But actually, if you tried to fix it you would try =
to screw on a bolt with a hammer.
Sincerely,
Luke Nieuwsma
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Donovan Arnold=20
To: lukenieuwsma@softhome.net ; vision2020@moscow.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
Luke,
Nobody is more against relationships between children and adults then =
the homosexual community and civil rights activitists. It is you that =
wishes to connect NAMBLA with the gay community. NAMBLA is a pedophilia =
organization. NOT a gay organization. You have a very twisted concept of =
reality. Every study in America in the last 15 years has shown that =
White Straight Married men are the leaders of child molesting. Look at =
you media cases would you? The "Amber Alert" is always little white =
girls abducted by sick white men, almost all every case, most of them =
married or previously married.=20
You write:
"For that matter, looking at things from your point of view, what =
would be wrong with simply abolishing all concept of marriage?"
Nothing, from my perceptive of equal rights. But from human rights a =
big difference. Most marriages are false anyway. It is what is in the =
heart that matters. But Marriages allow for tax breaks, child custody, =
hospital visitation rights, property rights, medical coverage, spousal =
benefits, car insurance, burial rights, death benefits, and a host of =
other issues.=20
Everyone has the right to decide who they want to receive these rights =
about themselves and their family. That is a basic human right. I would =
hate for someone to tell me that I can't have someone make decisions for =
me in a case of an accident because of the gender of the person, or =
because they disagree with my decision based on "their" religious =
beliefs. This the core of the issue. Not NAMBLA is a small group of =
freaks that no sense of reality or the rights of children.
Donovan J Arnold=20
>From: "Luke"=20
>To: "Donovan Arnold" , "vision2020"=20
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage=20
>Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:19:31 -0700=20
>=20
>Greetings, Mr. Arnold,=20
>=20
> I find it odd that you do not see the connection between Nambla and=20
>homosexual unions . Someone on this list recently pointed out that =
there is=20
>already hypocrisy in heterosexual marriages nation-wide; men and =
women with=20
>covenant vows are cheating on their spouses. Now what is to stop two =
men=20
>with a "vow" from cheating on each other?=20
> For that matter, looking at things from your point of view, what =
would=20
>be wrong with simply abolishing all concept of marriage? Why should =
there=20
>even be a contract? How can you say mutual consent isn't enough?=20
> And furthermore, how can you in your worldview say that sex between =
a=20
>child and a man is immoral/should be illegal? You're imposing your =
religious=20
>views on others!=20
>=20
>My sincere and respectful regards,=20
>Luke Nieuwsma=20
>=20
>P.S. On your earlier post you mentioned under the objection "The =
parts don't=20
>fit" that modern science can tweak a man's body into adopting female =
organs.=20
>But doesn't that simply fit the heterosexual pattern that man was =
designed=20
>for? You cannot escape the way God made the world, try as you might.=20
>=20
>
------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C35D11.ABC72C50
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mr. Arnold,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> It fascinates me =
that you are=20
willing to do away with the very concept of marriage. Is this the =
way other=20
gays think as well? I see it now; we'll all become a bunch of herd =
animals. Find=20
a consenting adult, either sex, and play around. Sounds rather like a =
dairy farm=20
to me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> But where do you get =
your idea=20
of human rights? You are pulling things out of thin air. Rights. =
Wrongs. No=20
sex with kids, unless they are physically matured enough. An old man =
cannot=20
marry a young girl. Why should anyone follow these standards, based on =
your=20
worldview? You claim that everyone should be able to make their own =
sexual=20
choices, and yet you through your own universal guidelines would limit =
what=20
others could or could not do. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> And regarding your =
statement=20
that most marriages are false anyways, you are practically saying that =
if=20
something is broken, throw it away. What about fixing it? But actually, =
if you=20
tried to fix it you would try to screw on a bolt with a =
hammer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =
Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Luke Nieuwsma</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Ddonovanarnold@hotmail.com=20
href=3D"mailto:donovanarnold@hotmail.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dlukenieuwsma@softhome.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:lukenieuwsma@softhome.net">lukenieuwsma@softhome.net</A> =
; <A=20
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 06, =
2003 9:40=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Re:=20
Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P>Luke,</P>
<P>Nobody is more against relationships between children and adults =
then the=20
homosexual community and civil rights activitists. It is you that =
wishes to=20
connect NAMBLA with the gay community. NAMBLA is a pedophilia =
organization.=20
NOT a gay organization. You have a very twisted concept of reality. =
Every=20
study in America in the last 15 years has shown that White Straight =
Married=20
men are the leaders of child molesting. Look at you media cases would =
you? The=20
"Amber Alert" is always little white girls abducted by sick white men, =
almost=20
all every case, most of them married or previously married. </P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>You write:</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>"For that matter, looking at things from your point of view, what =
would be=20
wrong with simply abolishing all concept of marriage?"</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Nothing, from my perceptive of equal rights. But from human rights =
a big=20
difference. Most marriages are false anyway. It is what is in the =
heart that=20
matters. But Marriages allow for tax breaks, child custody, hospital=20
visitation rights, property rights, medical coverage, spousal =
benefits, car=20
insurance, burial rights, death benefits, and a host of other issues. =
</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Everyone has the right to decide who they want to receive these =
rights=20
about themselves and their family. That is a basic human right. I =
would hate=20
for someone to tell me that I can't have someone make decisions for me =
in a=20
case of an accident because of the gender of the person, or because =
they=20
disagree with my decision based on "their" religious beliefs. This the =
core of=20
the issue. Not NAMBLA is a small group of freaks that no sense of =
reality or=20
the rights of children.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Donovan J Arnold </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "Luke" <LUKENIEUWSMA@SOFTHOME.NET>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: "Donovan Arnold" <DONOVANARNOLD@HOTMAIL.COM>, =
"vision2020"=20
<VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay =
Marriage=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:19:31 -0700=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Greetings, Mr. Arnold,=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> I find it odd that you do not see the connection =
between=20
Nambla and=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>homosexual unions . Someone on this list recently =
pointed out=20
that there is=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>already hypocrisy in heterosexual marriages =
nation-wide; men=20
and women with=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>covenant vows are cheating on their spouses. Now what =
is to=20
stop two men=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>with a "vow" from cheating on each other?=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> For that matter, looking at things from your point of =
view,=20
what would=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>be wrong with simply abolishing all concept of =
marriage? Why=20
should there=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>even be a contract? How can you say mutual consent =
isn't=20
enough?=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> And furthermore, how can you in your worldview say =
that sex=20
between a=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>child and a man is immoral/should be illegal? You're =
imposing=20
your religious=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>views on others!=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>My sincere and respectful regards,=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Luke Nieuwsma=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>P.S. On your earlier post you mentioned under the =
objection=20
"The parts don't=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>fit" that modern science can tweak a man's body into =
adopting=20
female organs.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>But doesn't that simply fit the heterosexual pattern =
that man=20
was designed=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>for? You cannot escape the way God made the world, try =
as you=20
might.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C35D11.ABC72C50--