[Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
Donovan Arnold
donovanarnold@hotmail.com
Thu, 07 Aug 2003 01:34:00 -0700
<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Mr. Moss, Mr. Harrell, and Mr. Nieuwsma are unable to figure out the difference between two consenting adults of the same gender having sex and that of a grown adult and a child having sex.</P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Let me explain to them and others that may be confused about the difference between two consenting adults having sex versus that that of grown adult having sex with a child since they can't figure it out.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>A child is not sexually developed, thus he/she does not know what sex is. A child doesn't have the mental capability of consenting to something they don't understand. If they can not consent to sex and the adult does have sex with the child they are committing RAPE.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I am not asking to take my word for it, go and talk to adults that were victims of this type of behavior when they were children. The American Psychological Association and well as it's counter part in Europe will tell you the same thing. As well as 90% of Americans, and 99% of Europeans. Even prisoners see a distinctions between a child molester and homosexuals. But you know if you can't, that just shows your inability to think logically and critically about the differences of one type of sexual behavior and another. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Mr. Moss,</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>No offense, but you are very slow in your comprehension of other people. I have engaged in enough heterosexual sex to know that it is not insane. I was being sarcastic. I was pointing out your weaknesses in your arguments towards gays and lesbians. They can be equally applied to straights. Please, catch up with the rest of us. It is hard to have an intellectual conversation with someone that can't understand basics of arguments and uses evidence from 1982 as support scientific evidence. Strom Thurmond obviously lives on.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Donovan J Arnold</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: "John Moss" <JOHNMOSS@MOSCOW.COM></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: "Donovan Arnold" <DONOVANARNOLD@HOTMAIL.COM>, <LUKENIEUWSMA@SOFTHOME.NET>, <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 23:48:50 -0700
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Donovan Arnold states that heterosexual relationships are insane.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Donovan Arnold states that homosexual man-boy relationships are perverse.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Donovan Arnold states that homosexual man-man relationships are normal.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Well, for those who believe in a young earth, it has taken thousands of instances of insane heterosexual intercourse to produce Donovan Arnold. For those who believe in evolution, is has taken millions (possibly billions) of instances of insane heterosexual intercourse to produce Donovan Arnold.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>That's one heck of a lot of insanity to produce one very normal Donovan.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I guess we owe due thanks to some really wacked-out heterosexuals that we are all here today, kicking about and posting nonsense onto Vision2020.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>And, while we are at, by what standard, Donovan, do you discriminate between the normalcy of consenual man-man relationships and the perversion of consensual man-boy relationships?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Cheers!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>John
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> From: Donovan Arnold
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> To: lukenieuwsma@softhome.net ; vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:40 PM
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Luke,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Nobody is more against relationships between children and adults then the homosexual community and civil rights activitists. It is you that wishes to connect NAMBLA with the gay community. NAMBLA is a pedophilia organization. NOT a gay organization. You have a very twisted concept of reality. Every study in America in the last 15 years has shown that White Straight Married men are the leaders of child molesting. Look at you media cases would you? The "Amber Alert" is always little white girls abducted by sick white men, almost all every case, most of them married or previously married.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> You write:
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> "For that matter, looking at things from your point of view, what would be wrong with simply abolishing all concept of marriage?"
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Nothing, from my perceptive of equal rights. But from human rights a big difference. Most marriages are false anyway. It is what is in the heart that matters. But Marriages allow for tax breaks, child custody, hospital visitation rights, property rights, medical coverage, spousal benefits, car insurance, burial rights, death benefits, and a host of other issues.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Everyone has the right to decide who they want to receive these rights about themselves and their family. That is a basic human right. I would hate for someone to tell me that I can't have someone make decisions for me in a case of an accident because of the gender of the person, or because they disagree with my decision based on "their" religious beliefs. This the core of the issue. Not NAMBLA is a small group of freaks that no sense of reality or the rights of children.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Donovan J Arnold
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >From: "Luke"
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >To: "Donovan Arnold" , "vision2020"
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:19:31 -0700
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Greetings, Mr. Arnold,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > I find it odd that you do not see the connection between Nambla and
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >homosexual unions . Someone on this list recently pointed out that there is
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >already hypocrisy in heterosexual marriages nation-wide; men and women with
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >covenant vows are cheating on their spouses. Now what is to stop two men
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >with a "vow" from cheating on each other?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > For that matter, looking at things from your point of view, what would
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >be wrong with simply abolishing all concept of marriage? Why should there
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >even be a contract? How can you say mutual consent isn't enough?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > And furthermore, how can you in your worldview say that sex between a
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >child and a man is immoral/should be illegal? You're imposing your religious
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >views on others!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >My sincere and respectful regards,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Luke Nieuwsma
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >P.S. On your earlier post you mentioned under the objection "The parts don't
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >fit" that modern science can tweak a man's body into adopting female organs.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >But doesn't that simply fit the heterosexual pattern that man was designed
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >for? You cannot escape the way God made the world, try as you might.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Luke writes:
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >"What if you have a four-year-old son, and they are trying to convince him
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >that he is being >sexually deprived? Suppose they were active members of
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >NAMBLA? Not an important >topic to you?"
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Luke WTF? Honestly, you must live in hole that exists some where between
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >the years 1892 and 1942.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >First, Mr. Hansen is intelligent to check out who is left alone with his
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >children.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Second, what does this have to do with Gay Marriage?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Third, he is worse off leaving his children with straight married man then
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >he is gay man or >women chosen at random.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Fourth, this is type of thinking that led to the placement of surge
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >protectors on electrical >outlets and warning signs on fans that say don't
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >put your finger between the spinning blades.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Fifth, pull your head out of gutter!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Welcome to the 21st Century Luke!
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Donovan J Arnold
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >From: "Luke"
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >To: vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:56:50 -0700
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Mr. Hansen,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > > I most seriously doubt that my 29-year heterosexual marriage will feel
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > > threatened if Jim and John Smith (or Mary and Jane Doe) decide to marry
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >and
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > > move next door to me.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >What if you have a four-year-old son, and they are trying to convince him
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >that he is being sexually deprived? Suppose they were active members of
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >NAMBLA? Not an important topic to you?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Luke Nieuwsma
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >_____________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > http://www.fsr.net
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* _____________________________________________________ List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN 8 helps <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMIENUS/2752??PS=">ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES.</a> Get 2 months FREE*.</html>